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Post by nicklyle on Feb 12, 2013 18:17:12 GMT -8
What about some how-to-climb multi-media publications that presented the information in the format of real climbs? Imagine short films and/or illustrations embedded in a print matrix that tell the story of a multi-pitch climb as a way to present the elements of climbing in a vivid context. This would be much more powerful than either narated video or a text-only format. Video should be used sparingly, where it matters, such as in showing physical movements, or conveying a sense of space.
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Post by geneyore on Feb 13, 2013 9:03:48 GMT -8
I like it. I think this would/will be a huge leap of thinking for traditionalists. Do you suppose it would be fiscally and physically possible to do a prototype of basics, belay, rappel (chapters 9, 10, 11 of Freedom8) on the cheap ($ &hrs)? Would it capture current Freedom users? Would this be delivered on mobile platforms or a html website? We/Books can do curation, marketing vs. any free content on the web. I forget if you have been in on the tmber.com thread. Something inviting about the short videos. Mickey has been thinking about this for the next edition of 100 Peaks.
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Post by ericlinxweiler on Feb 13, 2013 13:25:56 GMT -8
You need both forms, at least for Freedom 9. I wouldn't discontinue print anytime in the forseeable future.
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Post by nicklyle on Feb 15, 2013 19:56:20 GMT -8
Absolutely keep the print edition! I think even the multi media book would still be primarily print, but in digital formats the print edition could gain added depth and detail by embedding video and other media in it.
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Post by nicklyle on Feb 15, 2013 20:28:54 GMT -8
Cheap? Software is the biggest pitfall. It will take a lot of time. The print edition is the place to start. Printed words are still the most compact and convenient way to encode a lot of kinds of information. There are places where clear illustrations are vital to support the words. In the end you need to climb real mountains to make sense of the book. There are probably some places where a well thought out video segment would serve as the ideal illustration for a particular concept or process. One great advantage of a multi media digital edition, if it is published as an app, is that it could be an ongoing process, continually being expanded and improved and people could subscribe to it. The way to make multi media texts practical for publishers is to develop, or acquire, software that provides powerful but very easy to use templates so that editors and authors can simply plop text or illustrations or video or whatever into the template and then get digital,outputs for publication in print or on the web or in whatever app or ePub format is needed. Multi media additions to the text should be considered only when they truly add depth and power to the text. Fancy interactive doodads or video segments that do not add significant depth or detail should be strictly avoided. Certain mountaineering texts filled with gaudy full page color illustrations, but low on actual information come to mind. Nevertheless, texts like FOTH, which focus on action in the real world, can certainly benefit from including media which convey action and portray the real world with clarity. I foresee textbooks becoming a continuously evolving organism that "readers" either subscribe to, or upgrade periodically. The editors would update and improve the content regularly, much more regularly than is possible with print editions.
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Post by nicklyle on Feb 20, 2013 10:57:38 GMT -8
Developing a multi media digital extension of the text-based FOTH could happen in parallel with the development of better lecture tools for the whole climbing program. Much duplication of effort might be saved if some of the good illustrations, video clips, photos and other lecture tools developed for our climb courses can flow into this digital extension of the next FOTH.
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Post by nicklyle on Feb 20, 2013 13:32:21 GMT -8
I am thinking that our efforts to improve the lecture tools for the AIARE 1 course, including creating our own supplemental course manual and improved lecture presentations, can provide a bank of material to draw upon in creating multi-media components for a digital FOTH. Even if a digital extension of FOTH doesn't make it into "print" right away, developing these materials could be a way to focus efforts to improve the lecture tools available to volunteer instructors. Everett's BC skiing and AIARE 1 courses have produced a wealth of such materials over the past few years. It sounds like people are producing climbing instruction video clips; do these get used in lectures nowadays?
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Post by gregggagliardi on Mar 25, 2013 15:42:46 GMT -8
It seems to me that a digital version (ebook) could start simple with embedded links vetted by the Mountaineers. As more links developed these could be added. The multimedia edition would grow organically and be trimmed here and there when new developments replaced the old.
It seems that this process once started would lead inevitably to a Mountaineers information network. What relation would the book have to that network? Would our customers still buy the book? I am betting that there are many book publishers asking themselves this same question: what is the future of printed books versus ebooks? Probably both will exist, but for whom and for what purposes unique to one medium versus the other.
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Post by gregggagliardi on Apr 1, 2013 17:26:43 GMT -8
Recommend that folks posting to this board take a look at John Long's new enhanced ebook on rock climbing (Falcon Press). That ebook demonstrates many of the features that have been suggested by Nick and others. I picked up a copy ($18.95) to study how Falcon Books has decided to integrate the multimedia material with text. It is very impressive.
Most of the visual media are photographs, not hand drawn art. These are more realistic and arguably cheaper than hand drawings. Indeed, all we need are photographers (we have lots of em) and climbers (even lots more) to make similar enhancements to Freedom 9.
The Falcon Press book does not (yet) use embedded links to videos but this would be pretty easy to implement. There are several excellent sources of free videos on the net (e.g., Eli Helmuth's videos on his site, climbinglife.com.). Entering into agreements with folks like Helmuth shouldn't be difficult. Wouldn't you want a link to your videos in the most authoritative book on Mountaineering?
There are many future possibilities for mixed text and multimedia, especially for guidebooks, including our own basic and intermediate climbs guidebooks. Imagine embedded links to other Mountaineers' resources: course descriptions and curricula; climbing communities, gear lists, climb listings, blogs, etc.
Also consider the possible apps that could be made available to members and subscribers: USGS topos, climbing topos, routes with GPS coordinates, past trip reports.
Finally consider realtime apps: "Who's on the route", the ability to communicate with others on the route who have registered their trip on a central site. If someone gets hurt or needs assistance, cell phone numbers and email addresses of others on the route, including their GPS position and the requesting teams position.
Whatever you do, check out John Long's new enhanced ebook. The Stonemaster is still leading and setting the pace.
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dougcanfield
new member
Mountaineers Books, Director, Sales & Marketing
Posts: 7
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Post by dougcanfield on Apr 2, 2013 9:31:59 GMT -8
I agree with Nick on this: "Multi media additions to the text should be considered only when they truly add depth and power to the text. Fancy interactive doodads or video segments that do not add significant depth or detail should be strictly avoided."
While all of us are consuming information in a variety of formats, print is still the dominantly preferred format for instructional materials (other than for tech). And perhaps the biggest challenge for planning digital materials is that the technology is advancing so quickly. Simple apps would probably be a good way to provide supplementary info to climbing students, for example, but then the publisher has to figure out how to keep those apps up to date on multiple, constantly changing operating systems (IOS, Windows, etc.).
The key in my opinion is to determine what the print book can't do well and figure out how to add those text extensions digitally in the simplest way possible -- short videos, that can sit forever on a Mountaineers Books server, for example, or PDF downloads (e.g., field trip topos), that can also sit on a server, or links to a Google map that can be easily changed.
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Post by gregggagliardi on Apr 3, 2013 12:36:26 GMT -8
Doug: Take a look at John Long's new enhanced ebook. It adheres to your advice. It is a good example of sensible balanced approach. Falcon books is offering other enhanced ebooks for climbers. Also Patagonia is converting some of its backlisted books to ebooks. Case in point is Beckey's 100 Favorite climbs. A lot of climbers will buy it download it and carry it on these climbs. I understand that Mountaineers books now publishes others of Beckey's books as ebooks.
The Mountaineers maintain their own link to approved videos made by Mountaineers and others. They also maintain a link to trip reports. Additional functionality will be possible with the new website system. All of this functionality could be provided in Freedom 9 and in the enhanced version it could be clicked on to take the reader directly to the material.
There is no reason why the Mountaineers could not create and support one or more apps that could be used in conjunction with Freedom 9. Imagine an app that contains gear lists, climbing trip reports, climbing topos, short videos that demonstrate essential skills such as belay methods, rappelling, snow travel, crevasse rescue, wilderness first aid, etc. The apps too could be presented in both a hard copy and ebook. Those who want the supplementary resources could buy the app at a nominal cost. The apps could be sold on iTunes as stand alone products. Some who buy them might also decide to buy Mountaineers books, both hard copy and ebooks.
No one is going to carry a tome as large as Freedom 9 into the outdoors. They will carry smartphones, IPODS and smaller IPAD type devices. Portability is a lot more important for some kinds of technical information than others. Gregg
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dougcanfield
new member
Mountaineers Books, Director, Sales & Marketing
Posts: 7
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Post by dougcanfield on Apr 3, 2013 13:41:42 GMT -8
Greg:
I believe the Freedom9 group needs to keep pushing on these ideas. But since I'm selling print and digital products now, I can tell you that the market currently isn't supporting the expense of creating book apps.
Regarding Falcon's Long title, REI, which with Inkling has had an exclusive on it, hasn't seen a great demand for them. Though REI wouldn't tell us their sales, they said they are not going to carry these products from any other publisher at this time, indicating that the sales haven't been great. This sort of product would probably do better as an online download than retailed through brick and mortar outlets.
In terms of labor, we understand that Falcon's experiment tied up three people working for months to create their assortment of digital guidebooks and the Long title. So, an expensive production process. Of course, production tools and file formats will probably be sorted out better seven years from today.
Just wanted to give you a view from the current market trenches.
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Post by gregggagliardi on Apr 3, 2013 15:51:19 GMT -8
Doug: Thanks for the view from the trenches. Market forces comprise the essential reality principal on endeavors like the present one. These are certainly exciting times. It seems like any plan will involve a substantial risk. Which way is this hard copy book versus ebook business going to go by 2017? Who knows?
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